tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post8431636061145611141..comments2023-10-04T12:59:33.742-04:00Comments on <cfrant />: An Open Letter to The Custodians of the Fusebox and the CommunityAdam Haskellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14099670641814729297noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-60910453611703827882009-08-26T22:12:55.801-04:002009-08-26T22:12:55.801-04:00A quick note for anyone that comes across this thr...A quick note for anyone that comes across this thread and comments. To limit spam I moderate comments on blog posts older than 10 days or so. This entry happens to be that old so if your comment does not show for a bit ping me at a.haskell on gmail and tell me to moderate your post, I won't censor anyone :)Adam Haskellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099670641814729297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-60264207111587885412009-08-26T21:04:21.037-04:002009-08-26T21:04:21.037-04:00I have to say it seems sad to me to see further fr...I have to say it seems sad to me to see further fragmentation of the CF community and yet another splinter group being set up.<br /><br />It annoys the < s**t > out of me that there are so many different CF frameworks/architectures out there, and not one of them carry Adobes endorsement.<br />I guess Adobe are agnotic, and buy out of religious arguments. Good for them.<br /><br />To my mind - long ago, Adobe should have seen the problem with CF, in that it has no in-built or default framework that works for anything but the most basic applications.<br />I note that comes out of the box with .Net Studio.<br /><br />And so I come across so many web a-pplications developed by unqualified/inexperienced developers with no concept of what constitutes a good application layout.<br /><br />Outsiders come across examples of such code and then immediately notice it consitutes a disorganised shambles, and then take the decision to recode in .Net And another Cf site bites the dust.<br /><br />To me its important that a developer adopt a framework < type = "any" / > that (the lack of explicit support by Adobe to any particular framework except cairngorm) this amounts to a glaring gap in all versions of CF since V1.<br /><br />As to 'ownership' of the name/sourcecode it is or should be irrelevant so long as it is open source.<br /><br />Sorry for the rant, but given that Fusebox was the first framework developed for CF, and until now it has stood the test of time, its demise appears to me a catastrophy.<br /><br />Here is my suggestion on a better way forward: Hand the Fuse* project over to one of the foundations 'Cf Foundation' or '4CFF' and they should also take over Mach II, Cold Spring (and others ?) and make their project to consolidate and document (e.g. a Peters book) all of them in some coherent way.<br />This would level the playing field for developers keen on acquiring skills and lean towards consolidation of the CF community, rather than continued splintering.<br /><br />FWIW < cowering now, expecting flames / >Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16508445444112083344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-53141537993569058442009-08-19T05:44:29.543-04:002009-08-19T05:44:29.543-04:00I've come back from holiday and found that Fus...I've come back from holiday and found that Fusebox is dead! <br /><br />Okay, a bit dramatic but it feels like it. <br /><br />I've been an avid user of Fusebox since the version 3 days and have found new and exciting facilities with every revision. I've also found that it has suited my programming style and ethos perfectly. I've never found a structural problem that it hasn't been able to solve.<br /><br />I must admit that I was disheartened by the lack of progress after Sean decided to move on but now it seems that I may have been labouring under a misconception. Adam, may I offer my apologies for any bad thoughts I might have projected in your direction in the past :-) It seems like you share my frustration with the owners of the Fusbox project. In fact when TeraTech took over I offered my help with the doc's and producing some training resources but no one ever got back to me.<br /><br />So, to the future. Fusebox is dead. Long live FuseNG. What a crap name! Okay, I get that we need to have "Fuse" somewhere is the name but to impose your love of "Star Trek TNG" on us. Please! Let's hope it's just a working title. Is there no way you can wrestle back the name Fusebox? What benefit does TeraTech get from keeping control of the project (I never understood the purpose/benefit of their ownership anyway)? Maybe have a call to action on the newsgroup to find a better name?<br /><br />Adam, I hope the freedom this forking gives will enable you and the team to take the project forward into new areas with renewed vigour and purpose.Richard Herbertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-74239882406196071582009-08-16T15:26:19.904-04:002009-08-16T15:26:19.904-04:00Sorry I neglected to update this thread like I pro...Sorry I neglected to update this thread like I promised. CFUnited was busy! http://cfrant.blogspot.com/2009/08/fuseng-announced.htmlAdam Haskellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099670641814729297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-78368772917046925442009-08-12T10:23:03.618-04:002009-08-12T10:23:03.618-04:00Virtually all of the new CF projects architected u...Virtually all of the new CF projects architected using the Fusebox framework. Since the departure of Sean Corfield as the lead advocate and architect of the framework, not even an minor update release has be rendered from Fusebox.org and Teratech. Fortunately, Adam and associates want to move the framework forward. The Fusebox-oriented community will continue to languish without proactive advancement under the competent leadership.<br /><br />I agree with others that there doesn't have to be radical overhauls of the entire framework, but future enhancements of CF might facilitate enhancements in the framework that provide even better methods to build CF-based apps.linebersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-78781206928081603552009-08-11T14:50:58.916-04:002009-08-11T14:50:58.916-04:00A couple years ago I was just curious about Fusebo...A couple years ago I was just curious about Fusebox. It looked intriguing, so I called in and talked to Mr. Ajay Salathuri. He seemed like an incredibly nice guy. He sold me on the idea that it was a necessary skill to have because a) job recruiters were looking for people using it and b) it was a better way to program than just spaghetti coding a bunch of CFM templates into random folders. <br /><br />I was new to best practices. I didn't even know what a CFC was. All our office literature on CF was for CF 4 and 5. OK, so I needed this class, or so I thought.<br /><br />TeraTech's Fusebox training was divided as follows: an introductory half day class on FliP for $300 and a second full day class on Fusebox for $600. I wanted to program better, but $900? College student wages are nothing to brag about. So, I only signed up for the first one cause I thought might be enough of an intro and I could get myself going from there. <br /><br />The FLiP class was a waste of time. It has potential for project managers or one man shops, but I'm not at that phase in my career yet. I want to code. The FLiP class was all high level concepts, no Fusebox.<br /><br />Ajay walks up to me after the class and kindly lets me know that if I want to cover coding I need to take the second half of the class. Ok, I wasn't too happy about that, but I decided to bite the bullet. What did I have to lose? Another $600?<br /><br />The 2nd class was just as disappointing. The only time we went over code was when Ajay showed us a sample Application.cfm (not CFC) that could be used for routing all CFM requests to index.cfm. Yes, we covered the high level concepts, but there was no hands on training. TeraTech gave us color printouts of the PPT slides. Wow. If it wasn't bad enough that 80% of what Ajay did was read directly from the slides. <br /><br />TeraTech gave out no reference guides or serious code samples. Now THAT would've been helpful. At least train us how to write the XML! Maybe a step by step walk through of a Hello World app? Seriously, what a joke.<br /><br />At that point, I needed a reference I could read on the way to work, so I bought the FB 5 book by Jeff Peters. If you haven't read it, here's the break down:<br /><br />Pages 1-81: Fusebox is good. Fusebox is great.<br /><br />Pages 82-182: Actual Fusebox programming<br /><br />Pages 183-246: Don't feel like putting together a cohesive Fusebox reference, so let's ramble about FLiP for a long time.<br /><br />Pages 247-?: Fusedocs, some more Fusebox coding, the FlagPoll sample app and...<br /><br />I couldn't read anymore past this. The typos and bad code samples just got to me. Plus, the book fell apart, literally. Proton Arts, stop hiring 5 year olds to bind your books! <br /><br />Well, whatever. I still learned more from this than actually going to the TeraTech classes. And I did take a peak at the first few chapters of Nate Popovich's FB 3 book. I could tell where parts were copied and pasted from this book to the new without any modifications. Sorry Jeff. You seem like a nice guy, but that's just lazy.<br /><br />I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Michael Smith is a consultant at heart. TeraTech sets up their training so that you keep going back to them for more training or even more expensive consulting work. They're like drug dealers, man.<br /><br />If this year's CF United is a success, I give Liz Frederick and her crew the credit. Mikey is just a strange dude.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-69986938549762037992009-08-10T13:25:44.121-04:002009-08-10T13:25:44.121-04:00@benore and others I have not heard anything from ...@benore and others I have not heard anything from Teratech. I did send a private message to Michael Smith this afternoon asking one more time for the rights to Fusebox. I will post any progress as a new entry, as well as a comment here.Adam Haskellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099670641814729297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-35201549188056890452009-08-10T11:22:18.728-04:002009-08-10T11:22:18.728-04:00I have used FB for all my coldfusion and php proje...I have used FB for all my coldfusion and php projects for the last three years.<br /><br />Hope this gets worked out. I certainly support the changes that Adam suggests.<br /><br />I too really prefer the xml version - in fact I still use FB 4.1 in most cases because it gives me everything I need.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409256441005464584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-79091849573302967282009-08-10T07:55:29.010-04:002009-08-10T07:55:29.010-04:00I too support the shift in direction/control that ...I too support the shift in direction/control that Mr. Haskell has proposed. As a long-time user of FBX, it has been disappointing and concerning to watch it stagnate. I would prefer to see FBX remain a single project than fork, but if that's what it takes to continue the evolution of the framework, then so be it...Ron Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348517700182963403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-68611540737235865812009-08-10T03:10:46.457-04:002009-08-10T03:10:46.457-04:00Fusebox is a core framework in our business and a ...Fusebox is a core framework in our business and a fantastic framework to work with.<br /><br />It seems absurd to allow it to become stagnant due to politics by TT. I'm all up for folking it to allow the framework to move forward. <br /><br />Regarding documentation - it's hard to get people enthused about writing documentation, or even blogging for that matter, about a framework that's not developing. <br /><br />Do us all a favor, if TT don't support you, folk it and let the framework move on.Nick Tonghttp://succor.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-8666381227401218442009-08-09T23:40:46.093-04:002009-08-09T23:40:46.093-04:00I'll stay with the community version no matter...I'll stay with the community version no matter the name adopted. <br />I didn't like the policy used by teratech for the Fusebox framework. <br />Hope to see the framework more stronger with this act.Flavio Garciahttp://www.flaviogarcia.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-18695005375505396392009-08-09T00:08:11.585-04:002009-08-09T00:08:11.585-04:00Any response from the TT people (Smith or anyone e...Any response from the TT people (Smith or anyone else)?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13568005936379495747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-70303968434691121092009-08-08T09:26:05.557-04:002009-08-08T09:26:05.557-04:00For what it's worth - I took FB4 training from...For what it's worth - I took FB4 training from TeraTech several years ago, before they had domain or whatever over the framework, and it was a disappointing waste of time.<br /><br />The sample apps kept breaking and the class material we were given consisted of slide printouts far too small for a person with 20/20 vision to read.<br /><br />I learned nothing over and above what I taught myself in the "under 30 minutes" to which Adam refers. Took the second class thinking surely I'd learn something new. No joy.<br /><br />If not for the free copy of the Papovich / Peters book I received, it would have been a complete waste of money. However, I could have bought the book for less at Barnes & Noble and gotten more knowledge over the post-purchase cup of coffee.<br /><br />I've never again considered them for training, and I don't attend my local CFUG because it it hosted there. I don't know why, but I just get a strange vibe from the atmosphere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-60133092387978610862009-08-08T06:19:26.884-04:002009-08-08T06:19:26.884-04:00What can be done to help?What can be done to help?James brownhttp://www.coldfusioning.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-76494419934691817432009-08-07T22:05:31.582-04:002009-08-07T22:05:31.582-04:00Thanks Adam - hadn't heard of 4cff.org until t...Thanks Adam - hadn't heard of 4cff.org until today. Hopefully, that could provide a base for these critical open source projects, etc. Foundations have worked really well in the linux world. There's no reason to think it can't help here.John Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14267283201664401626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-42963905390584202252009-08-07T19:20:01.566-04:002009-08-07T19:20:01.566-04:00Would be great to have an education source and if ...Would be great to have an education source and if you need to lose TerraTech to get there go for it.<br />Evaoapcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12496046578674205238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-35159345688250599892009-08-07T17:22:21.881-04:002009-08-07T17:22:21.881-04:00I'm using Fusebox since version 1, and I'v...I'm using Fusebox since version 1, and I've used every Version (even V 3.x and 4.x). I noticed with Sean Corfield leaving the Fusebox development team its getting quiet around Fusebox. If forking is necessary to push development: fork and don't look behind! It's about the ease of use and the strength of a framework - the name isn't that important. Thinking of Terratech: if a company wants to earn money with services it's never interessted in providing good documentation to a software product. I've never recognized Terratech as beeing that important for Fusebox - I recognized the core developers - their idea's and idealism pushed Fusebox - not Terratech.Ulfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-67779062922605584502009-08-07T14:03:35.783-04:002009-08-07T14:03:35.783-04:00Long story short: I hated fbx4, changed jobs, had ...Long story short: I hated fbx4, changed jobs, had to work w/legacy fbx4. I looked into fbx 5.5.1 sans xml and did a backflip. <b>Awesome job Mr. Corfield!</b> It’s easy to use, explain to others, and dare I say fun.<br /><br />1) <b>Kill the Fusebox name</b>. Many developers think it’s a synonym for dry, bloated, xml pseudo-language.<br><br><br />2) Pick up from 5.5.1 and <b>rebrand fbx to FELIX</b>; the neat organized character from the odd couple.<br />There’s an acronym in the name somewhere: Fusebox Engine Less Intrusive XML .. whatever <br><br /><br />Also, thanks to Adam and all that have donated their time and efforts contributing to the whole.<br /><br /><cf_Ray />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-45718963223138161332009-08-07T12:00:15.959-04:002009-08-07T12:00:15.959-04:00The foundation needs a proofreader: "The For ...The foundation needs a proofreader: "The For Cold Fusion Foundation"...<br /><br />Just sayin' is all. <br /><br />Carry on...Marc Esherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05942611191966201181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-29251633953069930052009-08-07T11:59:14.686-04:002009-08-07T11:59:14.686-04:00Adam, how can we(the community) get involved?Adam, how can we(the community) get involved?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-19133363919980160192009-08-07T11:40:14.841-04:002009-08-07T11:40:14.841-04:00@John - You mean a foundation like this?
http://4...@John - You mean a foundation like this?<br /><br />http://4cff.org/<br /><br />I believe the crew behind 4CFF will be a CFUnited sharing details on their plans and organization.Adrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12331163693367908729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-31219323386132758832009-08-07T07:59:23.264-04:002009-08-07T07:59:23.264-04:00@Anonymous
"ColdFusion is dead (or at least...@Anonymous <br /><br />"ColdFusion is dead (or at least dying)."<br /><br />It seems clear to me that this post and this comment thread are for/by people who don't believe this is true. I'm curious as to how/why you'd have 157 words worth of opinion on a language you think is "dead or dying."John Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05672324883337954684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-38397736962196722722009-08-07T07:29:02.842-04:002009-08-07T07:29:02.842-04:00@Anonymous I'm cool with you being Anonymous i...@Anonymous I'm cool with you being Anonymous if that's what it takes to be truly honest with me and others (I know this is text so let me clear that is sincere). On the issue of forking, it has been done. The domain is registered, bug/enhancement tracking already setup, Fusebox's wiki has been forked as well, with additional content (albeit light on additional content), and source code has been forked and checked into SVN. This has all been done for about a month. Thank you for your concern though!Adam Haskellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099670641814729297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-37970803169338781482009-08-07T02:27:48.301-04:002009-08-07T02:27:48.301-04:00first off, Fusebox is dead because ColdFusion is d...first off, Fusebox is dead because ColdFusion is dead (or at least dying). There, I said it. There's a reason why the original Fusebox people got out several years ago (good timing, guys).<br /><br />Secondly as to the issue of forking -- go ahead. It's been tried before and nothing ever came of it. It's kinda like the people who claim they're gonna sue you -- the fact that they make the threat is all the indication one needs to know they won't do it. If you really wanted to fork it, you'd already have done so.<br /><br />And on the topic of suing and claiming there aren't any assets -- sure there are: what new name you come up with will itself be an asset and very very attach-able (just ask another lawyer).<br /><br />ok, I'm going to puss out and remain anonymous on this comment, because frankly I suspect this thread will be all noise and no action.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30496245.post-28960665888430889092009-08-06T20:18:25.503-04:002009-08-06T20:18:25.503-04:00My two cents that multiple person copyrights is no...My two cents that multiple person copyrights is not the best of option because it take only one person to hold the progress legally. In the future, it could be a person who hasn't been involved much, etc.<br /><br />It would be a much better option to spend the $100 or so (depending on the state) to start an LLC in which it is owned by the people you've already listed as "copyright" owners. Since LLCs are governed by the laws of business, it makes it easier to add / change the ultimate "owners" of the copyright by voting in/out new members of the organization (you can create your own Articles of Organization to account for this). For example, in MN the cost to start an LLC is $110 and it is a one time fee (and doesn't require a lawyer to do). Yearly registrations are usually free.<br /><br />Also, if for some reason some company decides to sue over the framework, they have to sue the LLC which doesn't have any monetary assets and protects the members of the organization legally. Otherwise, they are free to sue the people in the copyright masthead. And it doesn't matter that the license protects the authors, we all know that there are plenty of cases where it's just a nuisance lawsuit.<br /><br />My two cents...maestrofjphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08785860494007838414noreply@blogger.com